hi everyone it's Hans here the founder of ccino and welcome to this latest episode of flat whites and insights a podcast created to allow a space for open honest and vulnerable conversations with real people all over a beautiful cup of coffee we're here in my home so I'll be providing the flat whites and my guests they'll be providing the insights so grab a coffee for yourselves take a moment and I hope you enjoy this latest conversation thank you take care and [Music] enjoy Max H there hi how y
ou doing ton right yeah good good thank you for taking up a Sunday morning come over nice drive actually through through the through the countryside yeah exactly it's not too bad octopus year we got some it's a nice bit of the country um but appreciate you coming on and I've obviously followed your career for a while um I was a wicen fan growing up so I remember you breaking through um Heart Ball away I think was the first goal yeah um exitor away another good good screamer um so remember seeing
your career grow and that was about 10 years ago now um so for me this is kind a full circle moment but um for those who don't know who you are um not all my followers are kind of from the football world you're out to a brief introduction yeah of course so my name is Max ketar um as you said I came through Wick and wandrers in League 2 league one as a scholar so scholar is kind of like when you're 16 you leave school and go play full-time football which was like my dream y um everyone asked me
like did you miss home did you have to I was like I just no I was just like fully in it just loved it so I stayed up in Wickham um above a pub actually there was eight of nine of us above a pub so you can imagine how Carnage that was really like nine of the academy boys nine boys yeah so two First Years so under 17s and then like eight or seven under 18s so yeah some of the best moments of my life in there but it was really not the best pub in the world so we weren't being stupid and drinking an
d things like that but some just you know living with eight other Lads is just fantastic and then yeah I got a professional contract two years later um I got actually a really bad uh I broke my leg in my second year scholar on my tibia so just above my ankle joint yeah um so that was pretty tough but managed to come back from that Gary W was the manager yes yeah H he gave me my first pro and then yeah my first year as a pro I never played a single game I was on the bench twice I was very I'm sti
ll now but I was very small very skinny and then obviously wood left GTH fsor come in for his long stint and um yeah that first year Pro I've always prived myself on training well I was always a good trainer and yeah um got another year professional contracts as I said look go away go in the gym you got to get stronger things like that did it day one after the season ended I was in the gym and yeah and like you said that season you remember me from was my breakthrough season when I was 19 yes 20
134 wasn't it God yeah that sounds I'm a stats I'm a stats so I'd know the thing but yeah see I started I didn't start didn't start the first game came on for my deut at home to morham yeah and then yeah those goals against harol were probably one of my fondest in my career yeah came on at halim we were one nil down no it was nil nil came on at right mid scored two goals and yeah we won 2-1 and it was just like like you said scoring the first two goals winning the game as well yeah amazing um an
d I still got that shirt um at home or my dad's got it my mom's got tequila sunr one wasn't it the yellow and orange yeah it was nice kit FIFA on the back Samsung it was oh yeah it was the year we had the yeah it was good so good sponsors there as well yeah um and then obviously my career developed at Wickham we lost at Wembley in the playoff final to South End and that's the shirt you've got there yes and yeah and then I've just kind of falling down the leagues but been in the National League M
ost of my career with woking and now wistone yeah amazing ni it's awesome hearing you kind of recount that and I'm sure we can dive into a little bit of the experience of being around the kind of seven eight other Lads and uh and growing up I mean even just then before we hit record I was talking about so Darius Charles No Ex working player um he's now at Man City it's kind of like a house parent so obviously probably Worlds Apart like the Man City to Wick and wonders but the the amount even now
it's interesting to think of clubs and what goes into the academy and the after it's a really big role of course because I know obviously obviously Jordan I used to play at Wickam he moved to Liverpool and they moved all his family up there so obviously sometimes that's not um feasible so the role of I call him a digs lady or digs person is really big obviously the food's got to be reasonable they're athletes now but obviously the emotional and psychological side like they're kind of a surrogat
e parot maybe for a year or two so you probably spend more time with with them than than your actual family and I think i' spotted on your your bio You've Got U A for b as well so you've done some kind of coaching and with my role in BO and buck such a big part of we say like the the safeguarding element like being a coach with its Grassroots level to to the Pro game um yeah it's such a big part you play in the development and and there's probably throughout your career you mentioned some names
Gary W gorth Doo as well would have been there my biggest influence in my career probably well certainly um Richard Dobson obviously he was a coach at Wickham he was head of Youth so when he signed me as a 15 16 year old I'd left Southampton I was at Southampton from 10 to 15 left there U got got released and then went on trial at brenford and Wickham and uh Doo obviously knew I was small he was a small player himself so he was like yeah we'll wait for you we'll wait for your growth and he kept
his promise and and I did and he then became assistant manager at Witham so I was going oh crap like is he gone now have I lost his coaching because now he's gone to the first team yeah it was completely opposite he was now in a better position to like bring all of us through like feed it through I remember the names I mean sorry about to off normally you're told maybe you get one a year age group of like 18 of you maybe get one or two that come through I mean at wiam we had Charles D Anthony St
ewart Kadeem Harris myself Jos scen who's still there uh Jordan I obviously much later um loads and they've actually gone and had like varying careers but made you know money and a living and had the best job in the world for like 10 15 years so yeah I'm sure I've left some out as well but it was a lot of players come through in a short space of time yeah it was amazing and that was kind of the time that I so yeah t I was just kind of getting really into to Wickham um being you know old enough t
o go go down and watch watch the games yourself rather than and since then I've really been much more into I love getting to a live football game more than watching it on the T obviously catch match of the day and things but it's and now I'm involved heavily at D cot Town local team I started out as a sponsor but like with all these things volunteers at your clubs I'm sure you got them at worldstone as well like people who do so many jobs around their place and now I do like the stats hence I wa
s able to I can tell you 85 games nine goals for Wickam I can tell you sure you on that but um a decent ratio as well I've always had a good ratio just injuries have held me back a little bit but I've always had a rati of Starting Games one in three nice so I look at like my hero like Frank lard like ridiculous one and two and a half something of that but yeah games I start to like play I always base myself on goals and assists so I've always had quite a good like record it's just been able to p
lay 50 60 games a season I've found tough but yeah yeah um yeah I mean like I said throughout my whole career even at woking I was scoring 15 16 a season I always wanted to get double figures every year so kind of um playing that attacking role attacking Midfield um you kind of have to get goals and assists yeah no definitely and um world turnone that's the current Club yeah um been a bit of change at the club recently obviously um with the manager manager moving on um but I think I think you re
cently put out a video because you also do your YouTube and you kind of got your podcast Max talks football isn't it I'll let you talk about it than myself yeah no I'll let you plug it no so it was kind of I did a degree so alongside football obviously footballers have a lot of time yes so it's quite we obviously know there's a lot of like well there used to be drinking culture in football gambling obviously is rif now so many adverts on the TV but a normal day it sounds crazy because they get p
aid Millions but not further down the leagues everyone thinks you get paid thousands down the leagues but you don't but like um normal day maybe getting at 9:00 start training at 10:00 maybe 11:00 and then sometimes especially on a Friday before a game set pieces easy session don't want to be too heavy so nice and light you're done by like 1 you have lunch done by 1 2:00 so all of a sudden you have this 2 till obviously the evening um sitting around maybe your wife or your other half is working
or so you got a lot of time to yourself so it is I my mom was always on top of me like studying alongside football I was quite good at at school lazy but smart so she was constantly on me so that's why I've done the B license did a degree in professional sports journalism and broadcasting yeah really enjoyed it um I went into the course thinking I'd want to be like a journalism I I've always written for wicam program I do write a column for the willstone program nice um but I went in it I really
enjoyed the radio stuff and the TV stuff is tough I mean we all have a go at people on the TV it's quite Comm in news minut for females and males but full stop it is actually tough we done a little um on my course we had like a it was a two-year accelerated course so three years to two years um but there was obviously we've done the typical soccer Saturday so we watched Arsenal Chelsea when Chelsea beat them 4-1 in the Europa League yeah right and we' watched the game right there's been a goal
Max go stand in front of that camera and you got to tell us about the goal and I was like yeah it's piece of piss like we've been doing it guys we've been watching it and uh yeah H stuff again start again start again it was actually really hard lights all on you things like that it was quite intimidating but eventually you got better at it but yeah I really enjoyed the radio and TV side of it so max talks for was my little YouTube channel in the minute very in its infancy been doing it overly li
ke five six months yeah um you know not got a lot of subscribers but it's kind of like it was maybe if I after football go Media or coaching I'm I'm not sure which way I go I really like the coaching I I'm good at it high high high stressful job low pay maybe when you start so oh yeah I wanted to have something else so it's kind of one I really enjoy it like you said bringing the fans closer to players and you get that a lot in non league as well so I do Match Day Vlogs on that yeah kind of had
a lot of feedback about when I talk over the highlights and things they really enjoy it because they see it from a play perspective isn't it so like I think I saw you recently did like a short video a short video about analyzing your own game and watching video back and and I think that's really interesting to to yeah as you say from to actually see it through the mind of a player or even like where you got your coaching Badges and and I see yourself and I almost wasn't surprised that we see lik
e coaching Badges and stuff because and through the media you feel like you really do analyze your game and like some people maybe don't love football so much they'll play it it's it's high but you feel like or maybe that's the way the game go for life in general whatever business whatever thing you're doing like you kind of need to self analyze yeah correct if you need to learn from mistakes and then grow and become better at what you do but definitely only on my career again um I had a lot of
anxiety before games I'd like throw up in the toilet like before a game and I'd eat breakfast and go right well it's not sound graphic but like I put all that nutrients in my body and now I can just so I go out and like feel really leggy and things like that then on top of that go away after the game and overanalyze and like why did I miss that chance um so I saw me there almost that there's a there's a risk of getting into it too much maybe self defeating yourself and things like that so you I
do sometimes now if we get beat 4-0 I don't like I will look at it a little bit but I'm not going to hang on to it too much and I used to go back on a Saturday it used to affect obviously my relationship with my other half and like now I don't know if it's age or whatever like football is the main thing in my life but I can go home and forget about and write off maybe have a beer or have like a cup of tea or whatever and just go like done and have a nice chat of my my fiance so it's it's better
now um but there obviously is a balance of like okay where did I go wrong okay cool and also like just been off a terrible performance or something like every now and again there's a there's something that you just got got right off um so you mentioned there about feeling a bit anxious before games um I'm sure it's it's very common amount among like especially young players coming through cuz I guess for your from your perspective having maybe that injury when you were younger having that year w
here you're on a contract but you're not playing that first start or that first time when you come off the Ben there's excitement but or what was that like for yourself if you can recall like kind of the back to the injury we played luten away and the ball went over to their Striker he's I'm playing Center Midfield he's had a bad touch back into Midfield and he's just come over straight over my leg tried to play on um couldn't um you know the obviously the B IC boots you kind of get which you kn
ow like the boots when you get an ankle injury or something like that put that on and I I hate those boots because it I'm injured it basically clarifies it's like a badge of label on you injur player on the way home I took it off I was obviously not happy Dad was driving and my ankle just blew up and I mean like something I've never seen before so I burst into tears in the car um Dad Rings the physio marry Mo he's like get that boot on blah anyway had to have an operation and I'm saying like in
this was October time so I come back in February and how old were you at the time 18 just turned 18 like emotions all over the place but this is the year like I have to prove to Gary Wood that like yeah it's it's and it's the biggest year of your life so I come back in February and looking back on it now I could have seen the signs then I I was doing my rehab with every day watching the boys going out training like that's a lot of play especially from the outside especially Twitter which obvious
ly pretty cesit at times it's like a lot of fans criticize players for being injured and like we don't want to be injured it's the last thing it's the hardest thing not playing because of the manager not picking you yeah okay not playing because you're injured the two worst things like it's just yeah it's horrible so you watch the boys go out injured players have to be in earlier than the players and they leave later than the players playing so again come back I was doing my rehab with the first
team physio as well so looking back on it they had a plan for me I think they trusted that I was good enough and then I think that's something as a wicam fan I've noticed over the years they potentially players in they seem like a club that really look after their players I mean obviously there's people who like probably have stories about that with every Club I just yeah am exposed to the Wicken ones because I'm a fan but I think so Nick Freeman who was at the club and came through I think he
had quite a bad injury ACL but the club gave him that contract extended it so he didn't have to worry about rushing getting fit to get like Darius we spoke about um earlier but where he was told you after time and aor was just said look you're a big part of the group um and there's mortgages to pay there's bills there's things like that people don't again like you said people see footballers as you know you got it made but there's a big difference between being a premier league player with all t
he sponsorships and all the all the things that come around it and I know I know there is like a a certain point where yeah my PE my Point's a bit mute but whether you're on 50 Grand a week or five grand or 500 quid like obviously it'sit easier I know what we're saying bit easier with 50 Grand but like sometimes it's irrelevant because you're still not being able to do what you love which why it shows that high-profile players do have tough time really tough times as well you see a lot of people
when they once they've retired in sports don't they people like especially like rugby or or football any team sports or Cricket I know Cricket um I follow Cricket I'm quite big into that as well cricket and um there there was been issues with mental health and you can see if you're on a big tour let's say you're an opening batsman you get a duck and then you'll literally St there two and a half days yeah yeah um crazy yeah the less we say about the cricket this morning the better I don't know i
f you've been following so I get up at 4:00 a.m. I put it on the radio and then half asleep half like like 200 for two the other day I was like we're flying okay R whatever does what he does got out and then it's just I went back to sleep woke up went ate down I was like oh it's just yeah I know or even this morning I think by the time four down since it beond that it's s by the time you arrived I mean by the time as we're speaking it's probably probably over but um but that's that sounds very n
egative but the way like the team have been and like the ashes recently was incredible but going back to that kind of the mindset thing and the the the pressure on an athlete at high even tougher in cricket because like you said it's an individual team sport I'm bowling to you and you're batting and if you do get out you have two and a half days and unless you carry a bat your last deliver you face there always a wicket I remember talking to a mate watch was at Uni with me um and he said that th
at's why he finds Cricket difficult he's a batsman he was like no matter how many runs you score unless you're just not out you end on a on a negative you end on a bad which is really interesting way of putting it because that's maybe not the case say with football you miss a chance or you get book it like you can maybe make up for it and you got 10 other people who can maybe get you out of jail as well but when you're a batsman there it's a very lonely place I can imagine it is and like you sai
d when you touring India or you in Australia in the past years like yeah well we've seen obviously the mental health obviously with Jonathan tro yeah that tour that took a toll on everyone it looked like um but that ability again like kind of what I was saying go home pop open the beer or whatever whatever it is and just like forget about it some to try and switch off I've found that actually playing with some players especially like kids like from London who've had like tough backgrounds or lik
e they've got obviously I'm I'm not um a huge religious well I'm not a religious person at all but like especially like maybe people from tougher backgrounds who like have a strong religion they kind of can separate and just go well it's in his hands God's hands so like that can act as really posit like a really yeah because well if it doesn't go wrong then that's kind of what was meant to happen like and I'm like I'm really jealous of that sometimes CU I like well no like it happened because I
wasn't good enough or this or that happen me always trying to find a logic to it trying to find so sometimes just like putting it down to a separate entity or something can be really beneficial I'm a massive overthinker with everything like even I mean obviously bit different an office job but even still like if a day goes badly or I'm like oh I didn't quite get the project through as I liked or someone was a bit someone from a football club was a bit annoyed at me which happens you know footbal
l's an emotional sport even from the administrative Side and being part of like the county fa there are bits where sometimes you know they feel we only contact them when they're getting the suspension or fine or like you know they see us maybe as that DFA which is and people are like they're not doing enough for go football there's sometimes it there's that image we're kind of the bad guys sometimes so how do you go home and like so for me I would try not to overanalyze it for me um a big one is
is like reading now like I used to I never used to read when I was growing up I can't I only read on holiday oh really yeah I've had a lot of people say that because it's always when you're on holiday there's nothing else you should be doing but um but I'm not great at reading fiction I like autobiographies I like I like books about you know like like Sten Bartlett's book I've read or self-help books leadership but again that's it's me switching off but my brain still has to be active I can't b
e just sat there doing nothing I'm not I'm really bad at that but if I can put my energy into something does not work hence I mean setting up this platform with like ccino and got my coffee with Joo Coffee Traders there and doing this podcast it's things that that's are busy but it's not my job so I feel like I can switch off from why it's difficult i' so obviously in football you have a range of 30 year olds to 18 year olds so I have I have a few really good friends who are like 2122 even Charl
ie Barker at Wilson at the minute he's got really good career ahead of himself Kiren Loft House who was at woken he's at MK Dons now on loan from Barnsley so you can kind of I'm 30 now yeah so like I want them to try and get on the property L because it's so hard like I think I know it sounds a bit silly but like try and prepare for the future which is difficult to explain cuz like to a 21y old kids they're going out whatever things like that it's so true though particularly as in in the the fie
ld in the industry you're in you could get a career ending injury like that done so that's where I've I guess that's where you said your mom my mom was a huge role because even so I came from a good school Hampton and then went into um this btech obviously do the B Tech alongside the football she put me straight in to the diploma one like the hardest one she like you're doing that one did it with Matty Ingram um okay Matt Ingram the goalkeeper at Wickam and then like I said I had a period still
fulltime and as soon as I went parttime with woken it was like wow what am I going to do with like because we trained Tuesday Thursday mornings yeah what am I going to do with the rest of my week so I went straight into coaching coach for company in schools and things like so lot learned a lot about communication how do you communicate to an 8-year-old to an 18-year-old an 8-year-old doesn't want to be there or an 8-year-old kid who wants to be there maybe his mom and dad at school work late so
he's just there just to make up the numbers yeah exactly maybe he's actually wants to be a footballer and like he's so it taught me a lot so from age of 24 up until now really well not up until lockdown um I was working for a company and again taught me a lot looking back on it and then now I just do my own onetoone coaching and things like that um so I really enjoy that um U but like I said I learned a lot about communicating to different people because if you communicate the same way to everyo
ne just well more than half are probably just going to switch off it's a big thing we we have about in coaching as well particularly at the moment with like there's much more of a bigger eye on kind of neurod diversities the kids with maybe ADHD autism or way just understanding that people don't all take process information the same way and about historically probably if a kid was not making eye contact or maybe being a bit fidgety um you might the coach might just be like oh they're just being
disrupted they don't want to be here they're troublemaker and they'll maybe get punished for that when it's just kind of understanding a way to to get through them it probably helps you on the pitch as well in terms of seeing the game or or having that from a perspective of understanding what your coaches are trying to how they're feeling or the frustrations they might feel but with players to players as well I'm very vocal on the pitch So like um which kind of leads into why hopefully I'll be a
good coach after but like yeah I I think coach can give you all the plans you want but when you gone you have to manage it yourself so a lot of sing the manager sh may he just gone to KN County yeah one of the best preparers for a game like obviously the story around wistone in the last four years is that like tiny budget but like like we play soccer like we get the ball on the floor our possession stats are very high yeah we just have good footb very the best I've ever played in like since I w
as at 16 at Wickham with doo but like um it's about trying to right I know especially Josh Casey one of my best friends at woken I know I can shout at him and it'll be done like a second later or I didn't even shout at Josh because we both had high stands I'd literally look at him go come on that's your man or like come on like and it was literally a look and he do the same I go yeah that's on me sorry but then other players they might need bit of a ricking or like hey come on you're better than
that and then especially I found it with is like your tricky best players just tell them they're great just tell them they're great all the time I was going to say like dribbles ball loses it Go Go lose it again like go go try again so um understanding he plays like some people proper arm around the shoulder exactly you get it in every every Walk of Life I mean I just think management is such a skill and it's not something that you can just like you can be good at your job but doesn't necessari
ly make you're a good manager not in all walks of life um but yeah certainly cuz I think I'm a I'm a bit of a you know I'd be like a Winger I think need to be told need to be told great just go just go for it because I think I struggled where I said I was an overthinker and like real big thing I struggled with was like fear of failure same certainly did Growing Up um that comes from kind of my childhood not going to my parents split when I was like 10 didn't have like the you know the warm famil
y environment that other people might have like it wasn't a difficult childhood I'm not trying to like saying that but in terms of I didn't always I necessarily felt like I'd have to always be like showing my work for like oh look tell we so that validation I never felt that I do now and it's it's amazing now to have come to that point when I'm like confidence in my own like I know that my voice matters I'm valued and all that without getting too too deep into it but yeah always struggled with t
hat fear of failure or needing to be told that I'm great so my manager sometimes would I think if I don't hear anything my mind will automatically think oh I haven't done anything great whereas actually for some people they they would love a manager to just never speak to them and just be like well if no news is good news to to a lot of people um so yeah but we've obviously got a good relationship a very good relationship um and just I'm at the point now more confident to have those difficult co
nversations and be like look if you don't talk to me for a week you might think that's you trusting me and letting me off but to me I'm like I've pissed her off what have I done like why doesn't she want to talk to me so I well I'd liken you to a wing or a striker then like I uh a striker never means to miss like he's trying to score so I see and it's different people in that see a strike and Miss manager throws his hat on the floor goes mad or players go Defenders because the Defenders are atta
ckers often clash in the dress room because hey we're doing our job and you're missing your chance or vice versa yeah yeah of course so um anytime someone tries something or has a shot and they miss I'm like good do it again I see klopp do it a lot like they have a great move someone misses a sitter and he's there clapping above it brilliant do it again so yeah I've never I say to people I've never met a person who doesn't like they've done their job well or been told so just do it just tell peo
ple like when they've done it obviously when they haven't done it youve got to let them know as well but of course I don't know anyone who doesn't appreciate been told they've done well exactly and I think that's the thing it's that otherwise a bit like I was saying about the way that some people see the county fa as we're only in contact with them if they done something wrong or we're charging them and that's what we're trying to change as a perception yeah of like we want to be out there becau
se at the end of the day we're there to support people's journey and increase participation in football and make them enjoy it and and hopefully develop them through it um because you even you said about like the coaching like there's skills from that that would translate into any workplace communication like you say it's management not really coach it's management it's management isn't it yeah just in in a football environment um but no so something wanted to ask you about as well so doing the
the media stuff um growing up was that something you'd always kind of like uh say like watching football like has football always been just a party like it seems like for the coaching the media like it is and that is going to be a problem further down the line because when I have to retire that'll be one of the hardest transitions to do and it's probably could be happening as we speak but um to go back to your question I I would yeah I've just yeah I wanted to be a football my whole life but lik
e like I said I went to a good school I was very good at like well I was good I was a lazy student but I was very good whenever I had to to that's it um effective efficient yeah I love I'd play FIFA I'd commentate on the games with our mates i' I'd watch games i' my dad used to be and my mom and dad I'd go like or needs to do this or someone's got to play this and then the commentator would say it I'm telling you like 10 seconds later and dad would look at me I've had that before growing up beca
use I used to like commentate and I used to say to my family yeah similar yeah and I for like the game andu so my dad would be like well especially my mom she was like you need to do this for a living or like you need to you're being wasted as a footballer I'm like oh cheers but um yeah so like I said got an eye for it I really so I did um with the radio stuff for my degree when whenever I was injured at woken I was co- commentator for BBC sorry nice so I'd go to the game watch the game and firs
t couple obviously I had Mark Francis who I think he works for he does horse racing now he's got his own thing but like he was really good with me so I found it really hard at the beginning so you're holding the mic and like it actually sounds stupid but like how you just have to stop talking so you be like Oh So goal's Gone in then I kind of go yeah great play by the Winger cut it back and it was a great finish so yeah and I'll be like I'd say that little though so yeah I'm kind of done talking
I want it's very different to a conversation yeah so Mark was like just stop talking so like you say your thing stop talking sometimes there'd be a 3 four second and pause but that's natural on commentary yeah cuz you don't want them to be always talking CU sometimes you you fill in the game yeah so on radio you do need to speak more uh TV commentators can get away with less more stats based like you said or like you can just because the viewer can see it with radio much more description things
like that so A couple of times I celebrated a working go pulled the microphone out so that was a disaster so like not the microphone like the whole I see what you mean the whole setup oh God so they were offline for like a minute done that twice yeah so I had to try and um hold my motions together but like I said that one and it was what does The Listener want to hear so I was like okay I'm a player so sometimes at half time I'd go into the change room and come back up not tell them the whole t
eam talk obviously but like the viewers going wow like we got an inside knowledge to the dresser room what I think that's it people want that inside what can you bring that another commentator couldn't so then tactical stuff as well I'm watching the game yeah yeah so a lot of the time especially with coaching as well you'd be like right get touch tight or um got to make an angle here and the kids look at me like and I'll be like you assume that they know what you're talking about so it's about k
ind of okay so they might not know that working a play in a three at the back today why would they be doing that and then you kind of get into that and then I had a lot of good feedback about wow like you're kind of educating The Listener as well so I'd come into the commentary and be like right give them tactical stuff and maybe give them little nuggets from the tring room and then those two things yeah exactly what you offer yeah no I love it and it's it is difficult though you say I've tried
a bit even doing it on pre-recorded highlights yeah so for dig I don't tend to do it anymore but there was a stage where I was you know but commentating as if it was live that's hard because you're not in the moment and you're trying to make it sound and actually part of me was thinking maybe it' be better to just do it in the past like like it's already happened um but I think it and actually like I mean they're just I don't think there's going to be that many people watching it who don't know
the because if you're really into dig cot yeah if you're really into a club that size you're either there or you're going to probably be keeping up on the score but even watching it back it's nice to it feels like it's live that was but it was difficult because the emotion maybe because you got 89 minutes of yeah maybe nothing or oh on a and then finally when it does happen like yeah just for highlights but um but no it it was good and actually I had um someone on my podcast this same Series so
Chloe but she does a lot for you know a bunch of amateurs yeah so she's part of like the recording crew for that yeah so that new series it's like Reigns Park cuz it's Conor Gallagher's brother's the manager and yourself being a Chelsea fan I used to coach I still coach and bookham and he used to be on the pitch before me so they got a lot of brothers Jake I played against he played for all the shot yeah like run 13k a game smash you like he was a really good Pro um so yeah there's a few Brother
s now and obviously I'm a Chelsea fan so big fan of Connor so Conor yeah see seeing what he's doing but um but yeah so and she's doing sports joural I think SOL at the moment say some way head head me you at eastley um again another YouTube channel taking you behind the scen it's almost not so much the action it's the bits outside of that I've noticed a lot of football clubs like they do inside match day I think even like wi and we doing and even like the photo videographer at didcot sometimes h
e'll just put highlights but what people like is the kind of the atmospheric stuff and you kind of get a sense for the day which is awesome but um but no um appreciate it mate in terms of uh kind of talk about so you said about like the anxiety and up for the games um something just with the nature of my my podcast my experience and stuff um at wellstone at the moment or just in general in football is there like a psychologist or because I know I don't know what point in the game and I guess for
people listening at what point is it it's good question I I'd have to ask we don't have one no we had one at Wick Misha I think still there at Wickham um it's definitely something like you said we said before we started recording it's becoming more popular to study yeah and I think it's or even I guess it doesn't have to be a qualified sports psychologist but the conversation and like the hair dryer like the old fashioned management style I don't think with some of the younger players definitel
y now it would go down well if someone coming in just that and young people I coach a lot of young people they don't respond to that now they don't respond to it they're more like your Strikers and Wingers they're a bit softer like game gone soft but no in terms of people have changed people have changed yeah um you know words like woke or blah blah or like not soft but I'm trying to can't think of a word I'm trying to think of but like I say people there's a lot more of an emot like understandi
ng and like I guess the mental side like mental health as much as physical health is is much more understood and um and so that's something that coaches and players have to kind of have to have to take into account but um yeah so before games very anxious i' I'd struggle to eat and eating now by the time I got to like 27 26 I've got a love like a great routine I'm used to now so we all know like sometimes I'd have like a bit bowl of porridge and I'd score a hatrick I be right porridge every day
people are superstitious as well aren't they 100% and sometimes things work when sustainably they won't work for that in the future so maybe you just had like a little tiny little serial bulb for a game and then like I know Josh Goen doesn't eat hardly anything and he runs and smashes Fe he's the best player every week that was many years ago I don't know what he does now but it's different for different people so it's about kind of finding that element but for me preparing really well from a Mo
nday to a Friday but then a Friday night to a Saturday morning to a 3:00 kickoff yeah gives me a lot of confidence so I've realized like right three and a half hours before kickoff 11:30 I'm having my pasta so I have to have pasta for breakfast so it's a bit weird yeah but um for an away trip in a hotel I get up whenever I get up I might go down for a coffee in the morning have a little walk make sure I'm drinking lots of water but I'll always eat like from 11:15 to 11:30 that just works for me
yeah and I that um I guess as well you sent that there's a lot of uncontrollables but you you know you can control that routine and if you've done that yeah it maybe helps with we said about let's say the result doesn't go way or you don't have your best performance as long as you know you've done your preparation yeah you can kind of be like okay it happens and it's important because like like you said when you've got a longer body of work or results that have worked you know it works but when
you're younger I was definitely flitting from one thing to another like gu trying to work it out or trying to find it yeah and I wish I worked out earlier because I probably may have played better at Wickham even though I played pretty well but like yeah that just comes of experience and time in the game when I left Wickham I played at woken didn't have a great season my first season there got released from woken I had separated my AC joint I had a medial knee I I done my knee and then come back
the first game back I done my shoulder so I was like God saw a psychologist then Y and we're talking about overanalyzing earlier like so if I have a chance in the 90th minute and I miss it I go home I think about it I run it through my mind 10 15 20 50 times and she said to me that just in her back Garden it was a private my mom and dad found and went and SE her in near where I lived yeah yeah and she said every time time you replay it in your mind like you're missing that chance again so the e
ffect of you missing that chance getting bigger and bigger and bigger yeah so like she taught me how okay what would you do next time rather than think about the chance again you missed would you gone with your inside the foot was the cross good enough like what like think about what you do next time to score and that kind of helped me as well like um rather than like okay I did that wrong okay what what will you do next time what will you change so um that helped me a lot um um and now yeah I d
o I feel my body getting anxious before a game I don't feel the sickness I used to have or like mentally like feel oh God I'm gonna play terrible today I used to play games at w like I just want it to be over like the F I'd be walking onto pitch I can't wait for this to finish not in a bad way cuz I want to win and lose or not lose but like fear of failure it was more the fear of failure was outweighing it really good game there's 10 minutes left don't make a mistake that's 10 minutes to not mak
e a mistake or to not how I was thinking yeah which I guess so as a young player coming through but sometimes it's the other way your break for season as well Wickam obviously I mean aworth did an incredible job um getting wiam to what he did but the season that you broke through was that the season with t away that it finished yeah so there were going to be Moment Like pressure and yeah don't want to be I can imagine if you're a young player and you're the person who gets sent off on that final
day of the season and then Wickham get relegated to the conference like yeah I remember the week before we lost to Bristol that was the big one brist brist R they all came on a pitch didn't they and then yeah I I had a I think we played Northampton Bristol Rovers T all around us yeah Northampton last minute I had a free kick goalie tipped onto the bar we scored the rebound and it was offside yeah then we lost to brist rers I was poor that game they SC free kick I think I remember that CU I was
at the game and I walking back from that game I in my head I was like Ah that's probably so that's probably it yeah so okay so it's probably it I I go back to my house living at home I'm like to my d right how do we okay we're three points behind we got to play them next week we're down um what's happening next season what do I do personally I've had a good season where do I go what do I do like making no plans but like thinking oh my God what mine just firing could a week later we stayed up yea
h and then we bloody at Wembley just following season it's like crazy it's mad so it's really important never to get too high Lo it manag to say it all the time but it is as you say it's so true you don't know how quickly things can turn turn around it's a great there's a great quote I come from from a famous writer it was like treat both imposters the same like I'm going to actually destroy the quote but treat impost both imposters the same which is basically success and failure so like same al
most yeah don't don't don't get too high don't get too cocky and don't don't Focus too much on your your wins and don't Focus too much on your losses just kind of and I guess that is difficult because football's an emotional game you score like winner but talking about highs and lows that um and the shirt I got I think it is the shirt from so that's playoffs that's specific shirt um South End wasn't it 20 what year that 2015 because it was the year after so they just stayed up at T yeah and then
that was the year that Alfie morson joined us I believe and Jacobson see like there was a bit of a turnar around was there last summer maybe 12 players who left got I got quite a good couple of stories from That season um stayed up on the last day M down down gone fine and what was that like mostly the relief I guess I was on the bench I didn't come on for that game the boys in that situation W 3-0 toy already down okay that's fine and then we had a radio by the Stuart you hearing the and it wa
s just nuts like oh I remember watching I was watching soccer Saturday and my partner came in she thought I was going to punch the TV I was I was like like Stelling I remember je Stelling was kind of commenting on it and Bristol just kept hitting the post how they score yeah Carnage so and then we heard it was done we like one minute to go so obviously we went mad lots of drinking on the way imag like I said going from Devastation to Absolute Elation um but to credit to the manager like 11 like
I can't remember how many players but 9 11 players something like that went um I signed a two and a half year deal midseason so I was staying and then you're looking at Jacobson Paul Hayes um a lot of senior boys and that was the start of aworth USP well yeah because you look Jacobson's still there now creating the I know later he had aen fena that calls him the generals Bloomfield gape as well some of the that was the start that was the birth of it yeah um so Paul Hayes comes in obviously I kno
w him because I've watched him play he scored against Chelsea a few times and we get a bonus for wins and draws points basically okay yeah so God it wasn't a lot back then but it was like 50 pound a point if you're in the below the playoffs and out guaranteed wherever you are 50 pound point or you can take like 83 pound a point but you have to be in the top seven okay so I mean we just stayed up on the last day last season a lot of us are going yeah we'll take the 50 like guaranteed hazy was lik
e no no no we're going to we're going to be up there this season like we're taking the 83 now I'm sure it's a lot more now Wickam or wherever but like for me I was like if I start a game because you got a bonus for that yeah and I played I started four games that week and we've that month and we've won three like that's making a big difference to like eventually what was my deposit for my flat in the future like that was a lot for me a lot as a 19 20 year old but hazy was like no we're not doing
that we're doing the big one just set that mentality from the mentality was set yeah and like I said stayed up on the last day to losing in the playoff final which obviously was incredibly painful on that day um well actually go back Alfie morson joined yeah on the week of the season started it was very l so had he trained with the boys before his first game well he said he had when I had him on my podcast and I can't remember he had but like in my head I pictured him like just turning up on th
e or maybe turned up for Friday and I was I played against him he was at brenford a lot um never stood out I not I never played against him thinking wow he's unbelievable yeah and that's how amazing football can be like there's a lot of players who flourish at different times later development yeah um I mean he was an absolute joke Newport we played first game season I started Midfield yeah we've gone out we've walked out and it's blaring like Rodney parade I think it's called it's really loud I
've gone Al um if I've got my back so I'm facing my own goal and I set it back to you left or right foot what foot do you want me to play he's like either and I was like okay yeah that's a bit confident and part of you because you haven't seen him play it you're thinking how do I yeah that's a red flag because I think really detailed like and this frustrates with people I coach as well like so I've got a man on I'm going to set it to someone who's going to clear it so I'm going to set to your ha
nds to clear it I'm not going to Fizz it at you because you need a soft pass for you to hit it first time if I Fizz it at you you're either going to shank it or you got to take a touch PR could be a heavy touch then the player comes in yeah so that's where my mind goes really Ultra detail I'm thinking right when that happens I'm going to give it to his right foot so he can clear easily now he's gone now either foot and that whole season he was clipping balls like John Terry like Left Foot Right
Foot scoring goals season what a player incredible I mean Luton is the one that obviously when he's taken it through and then slotted it in the corner so good but um yeah such a shame though with we lost yeah so we lost in the playoff final at Wembley um I remember that was penalties um because we had well JJ scored didn't well it was own goal technically but I say JJ scored yeah he did um and then was at 121st minute so yeah we're running the ball up into the corner and I'm thinking I'm going t
o be a league one player like I'm going to be a league one player I'm Le when a year previous you were thinking you might have been a conference player or having to and I didn't know what the national league was like then I thought I'm not going there like it's probably an awful standard which It Isn't So I started to put that shirt on that you've got there yeah yeah because when we're running around with the trophy I want to have my shirt on so I'm taking my bib off putting my shirt on yeah and
as I've got it around my hands pig's gone and SP scored and i' gone oh my God and I'm a big um I never do that now when my dad watching the TV oh we've won that I'm like shut up you can't say that experience you can't say that so yeah and then like that we lose on penalties I I wish I'd been on the pitch to take a penalty because I always thought I've got a very good record now yeah because I say is currently you're penalty taker at worldstone is that correct yeah I've been penalty taker for th
e last five six years um I do have a technique there a lot psychological as well oh yeah get me back on after my career and I'll tell you about it CU I don't want to you want to give it away no but it's very simple it's very similar to Harry Kane how I take penalties like um but yeah but there is so much to it I think because I and actually why and there's certain people like so my partner's dad he he always says oh I don't like penalties it's luck of the draw I'm like no there's actually so muc
h and I do appreciate this much until actually he's P footall playing a bit and I'm I'm awful at penalty never put me on a penalty even it was just a charity game thing we did at D cot I I don't like I don't have the power in it I just don't like it um but I don't see it as a Lu of the draw like this skill involved and to be able to especially taking two in a game which obviously probably was Harry's thing against France when we when we went out I've done that once yeah and I won't ask you would
you go the same way because you don't want to give her no no I changed I changed and missed and then when we won we got promoted in the conference South yeah I let someone else have it yeah cuz I was standing over the penalty the second one and I always know where I'm going or what I'm doing I I went I don't know what I don't know what to do I think at Hampton I'd missed the second penalty so I had that in my mind just chucked it to my mate Heidi he scored and nice um I think everyone was like
if Heidi missed that we would have all gone mad at you but I was kind of thinking again coaches mindset I was like yeah I'm don't know what I'm doing to doubt and the goalie thinks well I got a new penalty taker here now don't know so it might throw the keeper a little bit and it did so we won 43 in that game to be fair um but yeah I do have a technique it's very scientific It's Kind it's just like the harder I kick it the quicker my run up takes time away from you as a goalie so like that's wha
t like speed equals distance over time was that at school something like that so like if I hit the ball harder and my run up is going to say very shorter and quicker there science to it you have and a lot of my penalties the goalie gets on it but because I've taken that time away like goes in but yeah I wish I'd been on the pitch to take one at I have never played at Wembley which is yeah again something at wilster we you're still in the trophy right we are we are you still in the trophy Tuesday
next round and then has it been reversed now or is it still at World toone it will be reversed so because I know it's if it's been postponed twice at a certain we it will be on Tuesday I don't think we'll be able to play at ours so it'll get reverse um just so much rain it's just been ridiculous this winter yeah so by the time this comes out that game will happen so hopefully still still on with a Chance of is it Hendon hon at home and then the winners will play solo at home so very good yeah y
eah um but you f obviously a home draw in any cup competition is kind of what you want amazing that' be that'd be awesome I mean we through work um last year it was the vs so it was ascott United against Newport pagno it was two of our clubs two box we got we in like the box so like where the the trophy lift was we were up there and um it was awesome and like for those players um to get a chance to play at Wembley it doesn't matter what competition it is to to play at wemy that's why I've just g
ot I have to do it one more time before I finish because it's that burn in side side me's that you can either go up in the playoffs yeah don't think I'm gonna get to the FA Cup Final or semi-final so um trophy the when I moved to chy chy had just won at Wembley so it was all round we just bought our flat and it was all like Trophy winners around the town and that so yeah fingers cross hopefully hopefully hopefully and if there's a penalty Wembley I know who's oh I'll step up yeah you step up yea
h whether it goes in or not we'll see but yeah no but as we say don't want to don't want to say anything too much Paul hay said to me when do you ever get a 12 yard shot with no one in the way in a football match and I was like makes sense yeah Mak sense it's a chance at goal yeah talk about PA that volley at um Spurs away White Lane I was there I was in the way that's when I I just left off that season so yeah you had that looked and I got back in a change said 43 and I was like what and then I
looked at all the minutes of the goals and I was how we didn't even get how we didn't even get a replay from that but then they had to bring Del Alli on son as well son like yeah incredible incredible best and worst experience of the football match for me it was like the best way at the same time to go from 32 up with like five minutes to go and not get a replay was was hard was hard but um no I've really enjoyed it thanks man it's been a really good Insight I feel not sure how long we've been
talking to talking for but um I've enjoyed I could carry on I'm impressed how just Off Script it is it's just like just casual just yeah that's what I I like to just have it conversational and we didn't know didn't know what we were going to talk about um there's spits up here the stats and everything I'm I'm a real stat um but there is a question I I ask everyone so I do want to finish with that for yourself as well it's not quite related to foot but it's just what does happiness mean to you wh
at's happiness mean to me um just being well I definitely have it on a football pitch back just having being in a moment where you have no worries or you're not thinking about stuff that gets you down so it could be bills it could be like people you don't get on with it's fight you and that's why often people get it on the football pitch because you're just focusing on winning um happiness I just find I love just being in a place with people I love having no cares or worries for that specific am
ount of time whether that's on holiday whether that's obviously we've both got weddings coming up I can't wait for it because I have all my favorite People Under One Roof for one night so like yeah I'm sure I'll be nervous before it but like I know it's going to be like the happiest day of my life so amazing such a nice way of putting it and I think yeah it's the people you have around you and the things you're doing yeah that's happiness to me that's happiness amazing n appreciate it mate all t
he best for the rest of the season and uh for the wedding as well of course both both can be in that but yeah I love what you just said there about it's about the people all being under one roof and people that mean a mean mean a lot to you and that's what it's about I mean I've said that like with my partner we've been together 13 years now so uh we've gone from 17 to 30 kind of together so it's a long time but we're it's not really going to change our lives massively no because we're like livi
ng together now I'm only three years ahead of I met Rachel when she was 19 so I was 21 so yeah so been through been through it all um and it's amazing but it's for it's almost the day in the celebration is for everyone else and getting everyone together but no appreciate it mate top enjoyed that cheers cheers [Music] mate thank you so much for tuning in to this latest episode of flat whites and insights and I really hope you gained something from that conversation I know I certainly did it would
mean a lot if you can like And subscribe on whatever platform you may be watching or listening on but also if you head over to Instagram and give me a follow capino this is the best place to contact me but also see the latest developments on the platform as we look to increase awareness of mental health through my passions for coffee and football in addition if you've heard something that you can relate to or you want to talk about a little bit more feel free to message me on that platform but
also if you fancy coming on yourself and having a conversation then do let me know CU I'm always Keen to connect with new people and get insights into other areas and other passions and other challenges that I might have no experience of myself thanks again and I really hope you tune in for the next episode take care of yourselves I've been hands thank you
Comments
Great to have you on Max, and some brilliant insights into the reality of a career in the game. Was a pleasure to share this conversation 👊🏻⚽ Hans
Great chat, hope you get to Wembley and score.