Kate: INTRO Hello, everyone. And welcome to the podcast by
ARMY podcast, where we talk about BTS, ARMY, fandom, and research. We are your co hosts, Dr. Kate Ringland and Jhertau: Jhertau Her, a
university researcher. Kate: And today we are talking
about Min Yoongi, the birthday boy. Jhertau: Our little meow meow, our
favorite cat, our favorite tangerine boy. Every single time I see a picture
of a cat, I'm like, that's Yoongi. Kate: It really has changed
cats for me forever. Yeah. Jhertau: If yo
u're not
a cat person, cancelled. Cancelled. That means you're not a Yoongi person. Cancelled, obviously. Obviously. Me even doing a bait tweet on my, on
Twitter, just like, you like cats or dogs? And every single person who says dogs,
I'm like, so you don't like yoongi? That actually would be so evil. Kate: Now you have to implement
it before this gets aired so that you don't give yourself away. Jhertau: Yeah. It's okay. We got this. We got this for real. He's the heart of BTS in a way. Kate: H
uh. Jhertau: He's like the soft. There's all those Yoongi is mean tweets
or whatever, he's a little sugar booger. A little sugar bug. Kate: Yeah, it's like the the baby
army misconception of the century. It's like the worst one is the
narrative that he's cold and mean. Lies. Slander. Jhertau: He's misunderstood! He's introverted! And he has anxiety! Let him be! Kate: Seriously. Jhertau: Seriously. Anxiety king! ADHD king! Right there. For real. He's living his best life. But yeah, you wanna star
t us off, Kate? Yes! Kate: Okay, so we're starting off
with favorite songs, and I'm going to preface this by saying I could
not actually pick a favorite song. I literally put some songs
in a bucket and did a random number generator and picked one. Jhertau: You're like those
people who are like, all my other songs are my favorite song. Whatever. Kate: It's true though. So go ahead and eye roll me. I'm going to be over here
liking all the songs. Jhertau: Anyway. I say that as if I wasn't the
confl
icted one before we recorded this. Kate: Yeah. So today I'm going to talk about Snooze. Because like I said, I literally
random number generated it. And I thought Snooze would be a good one
to talk about because it's one of those songs that has a lot of really personal
meaning for me in terms of I am someone who has struggled academically for a long
time and then I did a PhD program where I came out as a disabled person with a
oddly a lot of the same neurodivergence that Yoongi has talked about.
So there's a lot of personal feelings
for me reflected in the song in that, I went through this PhD
program where I really struggled. And now I'm on the other side,
if you will, in some sense of I'm now got PhD students of my own. And so a lot of the lyrics, especially
around trying to come up with ways to help other neurodivergent and disabled
students and other, marginalized students, how to help them come up
in academia and be the change that we all would like to see in the world,
essentiall
y and how to support them the best way I can, given that I am still a
marginalized individual in the academy. So anyway, so it's I see a lot of
parallels within the song itself and, in a lot of his music, really,
but this song really exemplifies it very specifically for me. And I also, the song is just,
obviously it's very pretty. It's just a really nice song musically,
but I also love all the referential work he does in the lyrics and referring back
to older music and referring back to other ki
nd of other thematic stuff in his
work, but also in BTS's music in general. So I highly recommend actually going
to Doolset Bangtan and looking at the English translation because she actually
has a ton of, there's like whole paragraphs of footnotes of the different
references that are being made throughout the song to other songs and to other
things that Yoongi has talked about. Jhertau: I definitely agree
with all you've talked about. Also, I'd like to highlight for
one moment how Snooze, he ha
s Woosung from The Rose featuring. The best decision ever! Kate: Very good decision, yes. Jhertau: That man sings like he's
been wronged by a million women. And just like with so
much pain when he sings. And so much longing. And I'm like, that's what I need. That's what I need. That's what I need. And it's just it's beautiful. And also the song snooze being
a message for younger idols coming into the industry. And then also having the man who
composed Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence on it as wel
l. And then it is like such in a
culmination of a song that has so many beautiful aspects to it. And honestly, Kate, that random number
generator did you good choosing that song. Kate: Yeah, it knew what
it's doing, being a reader. I will say, as a footnote, I will say
that I actually then took my mother to a concert of The Rose because I was
introduced to them through this song. Jhertau: Yeah. Honestly. The Rose is such a fun band too. I love Black Roses, like their fandom. They're so cute. But
I love their lightsticks. Kate: They were adorable. They were adorable. Jhertau: Yeah. Did you see the lightsticks,
by the way, for the Rose? Yeah. They were all They're so pretty. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Oh my god. I'm jealous. But much love. No, I'm not jealous. I'm just like I love the sphere. Yes. Okay, past iterations of the Army
Bomb did have the world map on it. Yes. It's just that the Map of the Soul 7
version is literally just a sphere. Yeah. Which, it's an iconic shape,
because it's a
bomb on top. It's iconic. But also the rose literally has a rose. Kate: Yeah, it's very pretty. Jhertau: Yeah. I love our Army Bombs, though. Don't get me wrong. No, that's fine. And I love the colors. And I love how the map of the soul version
is literally so bright it's blinding. Yes. Kate: Could take people out with it, yes. Jhertau: You could. You could. It's a weapon. Kate: It's a weapon of love. Jhertau: Yes. And as we talk about love, one of the
songs that I love from Yoongi, I don't thin
k this is my favorite song because
I was literally just arguing about it with myself before this recording. It was between Moonlight and 28. I think I like Moonlight
more, question mark. I'm gonna have to sit on that. It just depends on the day and
how you're And that's fine. Because I'm gonna say 28. For this podcast episode, but
if you ask me in a week, it might be something different. Okay, because 28 for me, by the way,
all lyrics from Doolset Bangtan. As usual, the icon, the queen who deser
ves
barricade tickets every single time, all the time, but I really love 28 because it
actually, let me get this, actually the direct translation of the Korean title
28 from the D2 album, by the way, is perhaps I'm gradually becoming an adult. Ooh, we felt that. Kate: So good. Jhertau: It's so good. Because I'm gradually becoming an adult. And it's stressful out here. And every time I like, I feel scared
about becoming an adult, because I've had a lot of moments in the
one year I've been fully a
n adult. By the way, I'm 19 guys. Sorry to make everyone feel old. I'm sorry. Sorry. I do it to Kate constantly. So I have to pause with Kate constantly. I feel bad making everyone feel old. I'm just gonna stop talking about it. But anyway, Yeah, but there's this one
verse of the song that talks about, I thought I'd change when I turned 20. I thought I'd change when I graduated. And then shit like that, when I become 30. Yeah, so what changed with me? And ooh, I felt that. Because I thought, lik
e, when
I would turn 18, I was like, I got everything figured out. I know who I am. I know what I'm going to do. I know my future. And then I didn't get accepted
into any Ivy league school. Anyway, and then I went to UC
Santa Cruz, met Kate and I was like, okay, now I know who I am. I know what I'm doing. And then I stopped doing
student government and get being involved in politics, which
I thought I would do forever. And then now I'm not doing that anymore. And now I'm here and I
don't know wh
o I am anymore. So we're just constantly changing, it's
changing is constant, so constant that we don't think we're changing, which is wild,
because all of 28 encompasses that feeling of you're getting older, you're knowing
more about the world, you're knowing more about life, but then you just, you
don't remember when you became an adult. Or when you are an adult. And that's scary. There's so many times in my
life I've started doing advocacy work against deepfake AI. And not against. It's again
st improper use of it. And that's scary. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know what I'm ever doing. And then there's so many times
where I'm doing things now. We're doing research. Spoilers. of something coming your way at some time. But I have to manage an
entire team of people. And that's scary. That's hard. Kate gives a lot of
guidance as a professor. But there's a lot of things where
we're all just figuring it out and there's no concrete answer. And it's very scary. But I like this song.
It's very comforting to listen to. And I also like like sonically, one
of the production parts of it, see, I don't know anything about music
production, so I can't describe this well, but it's like this like up and
down sound where it's and it's like the up and down movement of that. It's very much like seesaw but
I love that part of the song. And it genuinely this song
is so comforting to me. Because I remember when this
song first came out in 2020. When we first had it first come out,
I rela
ted to it very differently to than I relate to it now. Because I used to relate to it in the
aspect of, oh I'm figuring it out. I know who I am. But now I'm 19, I'm just
like, I don't know anything. I'm not an adult. I'm just an adult teenage girl. I don't know. I have to pay taxes. I pay taxes now. And then I have to figure out
my hotel to go to a conference. And flight information. It's awful out here, Kate. It's awful. Kate: You've got this. You've got it. Jhertau: Thank you. Thank you. We're
doing our best. But yeah, growing up is really hard,
and you never actually grow up. Oof. Kate: I can attest to that as being,
according to the internet, 40. I also don't feel like
an adult half the time, Jhertau: yeah. I don't know. Life changes so quickly. I feel like I'm at the point in my life
where I'm confused about everything, but then like knowing BTS and like seeing what
they've gone through, I feel like very comforted because I'm like, okay, I don't
know what's going on right now, but
I will eventually reach a point where I'm okay. Cause like namjoon talked about that
where like for a certain period of time, he didn't feel connected to his music. Or he was feeling very disillusioned
and then in the Pharrell interview, I feel like he's more come to terms with
who he is as a person and where his artistry is and I think right now I'm
in that Namjoon phase, sorry to compare myself to Namjoon really quick, Kim
Namjoon of BTS, icon legend, but yeah. I'm in that phase right now whe
re I'm
very confused, and I don't know what's going on, and I don't know who I am. But I think eventually, I will get
to that point where I know who I am. You will. Yes. Yaaaay! I know I laugh, but really,
internally, I'm sad. Kate: No, this is just a
natural part of being almost 20. Jhertau: I don't like growing up. Kate: I know. It's very hard. Jhertau: Paying taxes sucks. Filling out a W 2 form? Insulting, honestly. Anyway, let's talk about something else. Our favorite things about Yoongi. Ka
te: So I have down here in my notes
that I was going to improvise this. So here we go. Again, this was hard to choose a thing. So I'm just rolling with it. So the thing I decided to talk about today
was I love how Yoongi talks about his work and kind of his, commitment to his
craft and I have said this to some other folks, but one of the lives that he did
that I actually go back often and rewatch is the D2 debut live where he goes through
the whole D2 album and I really like that live because it
feels a little bit like
a masterclass in how he does his work and what his process is like, and he talks
through a lot of, the behind the scenes stuff, but also really just gives a deep
dive into his own kind of writing process. And I like those little glimpses because
for me as a writer and somebody who also has been trying to figure out
a good process for their own craft, It's nice to see those insights from
somebody who does things similarly, but also has their own insights. I still remember
going to the HYBE
Museum and there was a wall, I don't know what it's like anymore, the whole
museum's been redone, but there was a wall where the whole rap line each
had their own like screen with video and they talked through their process
and so I watched all their videos and Yoongi's really stuck out for me because
he talks about keeping notebooks and just his whole process of writing and
that to me has just really stuck with me both professionally and as somebody
who likes to write perso
nally too. And all my stuff seems
like super professional. I like how he mentors and I like how,
it's all very relatable to my work life. But I think that it also, I
think because I it's almost like one neurodivergent to another. I'm like, I see you, I see what
you're doing and I appreciate it. And it's something that I can relate to,
but also take inspiration from and take motivation from when I'm feeling, either. tired or feeling like I'm losing my
way or whatever it's nice to have that anothe
r person out there that I can
look at and go okay this is something I can keep doing and I'm still on
the right track or whatever it is. Jhertau: Aww, I feel that same
way like you can just stay on track with Yoongi forever. Yes, he is amazing and also Thoughtful. . That's my favorite thing about him. He is a thoughtful king. He thinks about others all the time. And he also thinks before he speaks. Which is very poignant. Because a lot of people don't. I love how he speaks. He is like the type o
f person
where he is just so quiet. And then after a while, once he's
processed and everything, he'll say something so like profound. You're just like, oh yes,
that is so true, Yoongi. And he's just this thoughtful little guy. Kate: And he's funny. He will say really hilarious
things like out of nowhere. And it's great. Jhertau: Yes. He has great comedic timing. I love how there's this one time
I think 2013 or 2014, he made a bunch of handwritten notes and
gifts for ARMYs, for a fan meet. And it
's so cute. That's Yoongi just as a person. He's a giver, he's a lover, he has
so much love to give to the world, and people misunderstand him! Kate: Yeah, it's true. As someone who frequently hears
about myself that I'm intimidating, I totally relate to that feeling of
being misunderstood, and I don't know. Jhertau: Yeah. It's like how people think that I'm
the extrovert and you're the introvert, Kate: Exactly. So wrong. Could not have been more wrong. Jhertau: Get Kate talking. She'll talk for
ever. Kate: It's true. I don't, that's the thing is I truly,
yeah, no, I, yeah, I could keep going. Jhertau: Like forever, guys. Actually, there's times where
we tried ending conversations. We'd go for another hour. Kate: That was like yesterday. We had a one hour call and
we ended three hours later. It's great. Jhertau: Yeah, we're doing great guys. We're doing great. But yeah, I feel like people do
misunderstand there's a whole conversation to have about how ARMYs,
a lot of ARMYs, will see any
sign of neurodivergence and then just
shut down and be negative about it. Be like, that's weird or whatever. And it's Can you just be accepting
of how people are different? Kate: Oh, or the and maybe we'll
get cancelled for this episode, but like the army that come, oh,
don't diagnose him, those army, Jhertau: he's literally said it. Kate: He's literally said
it, out loud, with his mouth. Come at me. Jhertau: Seriously, come at us. Get behind me, Kate. I cannot stand people who try to act
like
you're diagnosing them or whatever. Cause you're not, it's they exhibit
these things and they act like this. And it's that's how like
neurodivergent people relating to that should not be a bad thing. Kate: And if you're seeing it as a
bad thing, then you need to reflect, because that's ableism, actually. Jhertau: Instead, let's take a moment
to appreciate Yoongi's gummy smile. Classic. Just, oh, it's so good. I love his little teeth. Oh my god, he's the cutest little boy. He's just a little guy.
He's just a little guy hanging out. And he's here to spread happiness
and joy with his tangerines and cats. It's like that one solo stan who had
the tweet where it's like, stop making Yoongi's personality tangerines and cats. And then Yoongi was like,
oh, I love tangerines. Like a week later in a video? Kate: No seriously, and then they
had the birthday cake that was just all cats, and I just cannot. Jhertau: We're out here, just Every single
time solo stans try to claim a member is some type
of way, the member will show up. Kate: When you're talking about making
it my personality, it is my personality. Jhertau: No, actually, it is. , we had this note down to
like Yoongi himself too. He's also like the most
romantic member of BTS. Kate: Oh, yes. Obviously. I will die on that hill. Actually. Jhertau: He cooks. He's domestic husband .There's just
a video release too, I think it was of the Beyond the Star documentary. And he's like sitting on a couch, and I
think it's like around his b
irthday time. And one of the concerts, and then
Hobi and Namjoon are trying to deny that they're gonna do anything for
his birthday during the concert. And then he just looks so husband there. He looks so husband. . Oh, I love that man. Kate: I may have already saved that GIF. Yes. Jhertau: You're so real for that. Do you know what we don't love? Kate: We've already mentioned
them once in this episode. Jhertau: The solo stans. Anyway, we hate Yoongi Solo Sans. We hate that they even have
to be a
ssociated with him. Personally, I have been attacked by them. They're just mean and uncaring, and
they also have the I don't give a f mentality, and that they're just like
so mean, they're proud of being mean. I feel on a scale of nastiness, of
course, number one, Jimin's solo stans. Disgusting human beings. Have no morals. But then below that, Yoongi's
solo stans, right there. Just they're just mean and uncaring. And they like, attack you with anything. And it's just they're awful. and terribl
e people. They don't register that either
because they're proud of being mean. They're proud of the
fact that they're mean. Kate: And It's like deeply ironic
given everything we just said. Jhertau: it's like how all solo
stans are opposite of the member. Yoongi's the sweetest person
in the world, the solo stans? Disgusting. Horrible people. Like we talked about this before,
but do you want to expand on it? Like how they detach Yoongi from
his politically charged background Kate: Oh yeah, that j
ust came
up recently on the timeline. This is probably not the first time
it's come up, but making comments about, don't be associating his
name with political activism and keeping politics out of his space. And we're all sitting there have
you not read any of his lyrics ever? Just curious. Jhertau: Everything he makes
is super politically charged. Kate: The politics of things is
clearly one of his big agenda items from the get go, from debut. Just thinking about even Haeguem
is super politicall
y charged. Jhertau: Definitely. With AGUST D, I'm looking
at the lyrics right now. Doolset Bangtan, as always, icon legend. Even the first line of AGUST D is,
they call me new thing, here's my, here's a new recruit, get his stuff. So politically charged. . In that one line. .
Referencing the military, get his stuff,
, how militant the K pop industry is Kate: and even the, even, snooze
that I was talking about at the beginning of this episode is like super Politically charged. Jhertau: Yeah. But
I feel like people also
reference strange a lot. Kate: Strange is a super good one because
that's like super anti capitalist. . What do you think? Also super charged, Jhertau: super duper. We can just say every song
we can literally list. Kate: Yeah. But I think that, and it's not just,
it's not just his lyrics, but if you go back and look at some of his
interviews and stuff like, I think it was a Weverse interview, Weverse
magazine interview where he's talking about the K pop industry and som
e of the
problematic stuff with the K pop industry. And then the choices of clothes
that he wears there's just so much that it's all very pointed and
particular and trying to make a point. And and I feel like this is true of all
of BTS, but him in particular, like really has opinions and does a really artful
way of expressing them without being. in your face, which is maybe too
hard for some people to grasp. Jhertau: Yeah, definitely. With how, solo stans, tried to detach. It was, oh, that's so
sad. It was about Haeguem, right? And about oh, stop trying to make
what he's talking about political. Everything Yoongi does is
political, and he knows that. Kate: And I think that's the difference
between him and a lot of other, just, artists in general is that. He knows he has a platform and he's
choosing to use it very intentionally. And that goes back to what we were saying
earlier in the episode, but he's very intentional about everything he does. And, I think that there is I guess
that's
just something that I really value about him is that, this is his platform. This is how he's choosing to use it. And I feel like it's important that we
actually sit and consider and reflect on the messages he's sharing with us. Jhertau: Yeah, definitely. Because he shares a lot of messages that
can apply to like multiple things too. Like when he talks about gender
identity at any point in time, like you talked about the interview where
he talks about the clothes thing. Kate: Yeah. Jhertau: And i
t's so profound to hear
someone talk about that, especially with this platform, and how gender affirming
that is for a lot of people to hear. Everything Yoongi does is
political, and even expanding that, everything BTS does is political. Yeah. They are literally political bodies,
as in their body as a physical human being, as Asian Korean men from Korea. They're political bodies, but
they're also like a political body as like the entity of BTS. . They're political. We have this like in our notes
as
well, but like the whole Busan concert, you want to talk about that, Kate? Kate: That entire concert and, how it came
about and then how it ended up happening. There's a lot of noise and nonsense from
the government that kind of occurred before, during, and after around it, but
I think what's important here is that they then took that platform and they
delivered a message to us as the audience, and I think they made some things very
clear while they were doing that, and it felt a little bit,
in a lovely way, like
a giant middle finger to politicians and the people that were essentially trying
to control them in different ways and then do it having that concert and then
dropping their enlistment announcement like right afterwards was just chef's
kiss that whole thing was just was so good Jhertau: kings actually kings for doing
that because I remember the Busan concert. That was like one of the first
times I've seen a lot of ARMYs who I knew privately would refuse to
talk about enlis
tment publicly. But that was one of the first times
where I saw a lot of ARMYs start talking about enlistment publicly. And I was like, Oh, it's serious now. Cause before the Busan concerts,
like a lot of people did not talk about enlistment. Cause, because it. Very much was a, it wasn't a
taboo topic, but when you talked about it on the timeline, then
everyone would start talking about it and throwing their opinion in. And then people did not like that
because first off, a lot of ARMYs don't kn
ow about Korean enlistment. Let's be real here. So a lot of ARMYs had very ignorant
perspectives and viewpoints about it. And then Second off, a lot of ARMYs
called for exemption, which BTS have never called for themselves, and it's a whole
political mess when you ask for exemption. Because sports players get it. We recently, we saw a gay, a very
prominent gamer for a video game get it. His name's Faker, he
plays League of Legends. If you don't know, he's
literally a god of the game. Kate: He wa
s on a run BTS episode. Jhertau: Yeah, that's what's important. No, but to contextualize who
Faker is, he's literally carrying South Korea globally in League
of Legends, the video game. And if they lost him, South Korea,
in my opinion, would just lose. every competition and
championship without him. So that's probably why they exempted him,
because South Korea knew that if they lost him, they would lose everything. But in the instance of BTS, they probably
thought they could continue relying on
the rest of K pop, but now we're beginning to
see things like the K pop bubble bursting. Like with sales numbers not matching with
stream numbers or like actual popularity of a group, and how A lot of K pop groups
are now being exposed for dumping albums, which used to be a big problem, still
is a big problem, but it's becoming an even bigger problem with this overbuying. There's a lot going on there. And just seeing how people during the
Busan concert era, started talking about enlistment and s
tart having opinions
on it, it really came to the apex of understanding like how political BTS as
an entity are because we saw how they could not say no to the Busan World
Expo concert because this was for the World Expo, which Busan didn't even win. Kate: Yeah, all of that and
they didn't even get it. Jhertau: Which they deserve to not win. , because they try to use BTS and ARMYs
know that too and we were mad about it. And then the politicians were
like, why are they so mad about it? Why we hav
e a global fandom so
mad at us about this World Expo? Because you were trying to use BTS for it. What made me uncomfortable was
that one press conference with that one politician raising up. I think it was Taehyung's arm. I'm pretty sure. That was disgusting. Kate: Yeah, that was Really cringy. Jhertau: I almost want to find
out the name of that politician so I can block him on everything. But yeah, the whole Busan concert
really shows like the apex of BTS as political bodies and how they really
can't say no to a lot of things. They can't say no to the
Korean government a lot. Like even we saw during the Boy Scouts. Kate: Yeah. Jhertau: What's it called? The Emporium or something? Festival? Kate: I don't know. It was a whole mess. That's all I remember. Jhertau: Yeah, it was a whole mess. And then what happened was that the
Korean government put a whole K pop concert on for them, so they would
forget about how much of a mess it was. . And they did a whole concert with a
bunch of idols
from different companies and also from HYBE, and then HYBE had
to send photo cards of BTS, because BTS themselves couldn't perform. Kate: Because one of them was
already enlisted at the time, right? . At least one. Yeah, that was super awkward. It was like, Jhertau: so you just want to pull him
out of military service to perform? Question mark? Anyway. But very much like BTS are
political bodies and also victims of different circumstances. They genuinely could not
say no to the Busan concert. An
d it was. Cause I, I know they've said no to
things like the Olympics, which is so funny still in retrospect cause it's
like they said no to the Olympics cause they're busy doing something and
then Jin posts a picture of a chicken. Kate: Yeah. Yeah. Jhertau: No, it's a picture. It's a video of a chicken. King right there. King. But very much like BTS are political
bodies, political entities. And. If you ever want to understand
that, just go back to the Busan era. The Yet to Come in Busan era. An
d go back to what
people were saying then. Cause, very much. Political people. Political bodies. How we feeling about that, Kate? Kate: Yes. Big agree. I think that it's it's interesting if
you, think of them through this lens of them as a political body and then
go all the way back through, all the way back through to their, debut album. And they've always been political. They've always been making these political
statements, these political decisions. And that's why when they make choices
like
to go to the UN or to go to the White House and stuff, like those are
very important moments in general, because that's what they're, they made
those decisions to make those statements. And so I don't know, I feel like
there's a lot of pressure for them. I've seen it on the timeline in regards
to some multiple different things, but this pressure for them to speak on
everything and to speak on different global crises and to do this or that. I think that it's important to recognize
that they have
to make decisions about what they will and won't say and
what they can and can't say and that there's a lot of moving pieces within
that and they make a lot of statements but by not saying anything at all and
they make a lot of statements through other means, like through their music
or through, maybe through music they recommend or maybe through different,
all these different things they do, they recognize the impact they have
and they're making those decisions. And I think that's important to
think of in the larger context. Jhertau: Definitely. I feel like people don't
recognize this enough. There's some things they have to do and
there's a lot of things they cannot say. . Explicitly. And it, it very much puts into
perspective how BTS themselves are victims in a lot of circumstance. And again, as South Korean Asian men. Kate: The context is
super, super important. Jhertau: Yeah. And it makes me like,
extremely frustrated. They can't say anything in a lot
of circumstance and it makes
me extremely frustrated that they have
to go through a lot of these things. Like I've talked to this on
Twitter before, but go check my Twitter for anything you want to
know how I think about things. I'm very vocal about that, but very
much there's some people, like even in my immediate life and around
me, in university, at home, like a lot of different people I know
who can't say anything because they are fighting different battles. I have a friend who's working on
a case right now and she can
't say anything publicly because the
opposition in the case wouldn't use anything, any ammunition to discredit
her and what she's working towards. Anything, and she's fighting a bigger
battle for something that potentially 10, 5, 10 years down the line will change
everything in how we live as people. And if those people cannot speak,
I've said this before, a lot of people got mad at me for saying
it, but I'm going to say it again. If people, if other people cannot speak,
then it is your duty, yo
ur job as an individual, as a person to speak for them. If they cannot speak,
then you speak for them. Are we hearing what I am putting down? Okay? If other people cannot speak,
if you think, oh, why is this person not speaking? Look at the people around them
and what they are saying, because those people will speak for them
and will speak on their behalf. That's why I'm so vocal. A lot of people tell me to not be so
vocal, but also I am a representative for multiple things, and I am, even
if, I
always feel like even if I don't want to go into politics or be
involved in politics in any type of way, I'm so annoying that I eventually
have to say something about it. Because that's, I've subscribed
myself forever to be just a forever activist, a forever advocate, and
I feel like that's just what a lot of us need to be in our lives. So if people around you
cannot say something. We're picking up what I'm putting down. We're picking it up. We're picking it up. Okay. People around, you're not
saying
anything, then look to the people around them and what they are saying. And that most likely reflects what they
think about the whole situation as well. So with BTS and coming back to BTS
and what they do, if BTS cannot say anything, it's up to us as ARMYs,
as their fans, to say something. But when there's actually things happening
in ARMY Twitter that did get recognized by a body in Korea, and that's exciting. And Korean ARMYs are on board with
it, ARMYs internationally are on board with
it, and I hope all of us
can continue organizing towards it. By the way, right now we're recording
this episode in January, but I hope by the time this episode is released, maybe
we can come back to it, give some updates on what we're happy and excited about,
because I am excited for the future and I know ARMY as a political body themselves. Hi! We're all political bodies. My whole existence is political. But yeah, with being political
bodies, like as ARMYs, if BTS cannot speak on something, we
speak on it. We act on it. Because we are our own independent
body who can do what we want. That's right. We literally talked about this before. . Go out there and be annoying. Because being annoying
is how things get done. So that's your job. Yeah. How are we thinking? How are we feeling about that, Kate? Kate: I agree. As somebody who actually, I will say
this, I will, I won't speak on specifics, but I will say as somebody who has to
actually be careful about what they say about certain thing
s out loud especially
in recorded medium I appreciate. What other people are doing around me. So I do appreciate that. And I appreciate the
understanding that comes with it. So the, the not making demands. So that's one thing I've seen, especially
towards BTS, is like demanding they do this or demanding they do that. And that's not really our jobs. We can talk to HYBE and we can demand
stuff of the company and the choices the company is making, but I don't
think it's our place to demand stuff of
BTS, especially in terms of them
making specific political statements. That has to be something that comes from
them and it's a choice they make, not something that we hold them hostage over. Because that's, as we were saying,
there's a lot of context and stuff that we are not privy to. And there's a lot of context we
can see and we can't necessarily make those decisions for them. But I think as a community, we
can be a voice for them, even if they can't speak about it. Jhertau: Yeah. Also, if
you want to understand the
limitations that a lot of South Korean men face in the military, I really
encourage you to read interviews and watch interviews from men who have been
through the enlistment process before. Very much in the South Korean military. This is true for a lot of militaries
around the world and a lot of situations of mandatory enlistment. You have no rights, essentially, once
you enlist and Kate and I have both been affected by militarism and the
military and actual conflicts
in our own lives and the people around us. And very much, I hope people can
come to an understanding about why They don't say anything because
they don't have rights right now. Kate: Yeah. Jhertau: And it is, it's one of
like, I'm not gonna cry because this is a Yoongi birthday episode
and we should be a little more Kate: He'd be proud of us for talking
politics on his birthday episode. Jhertau: He would be proud, but it does
give me, it does make me deeply upset. That the BTS are, have to,
they
can't do anything. They can't say anything. Even if they weren't enlisted
right now, I know they would have said something even subtly. Yeah. Like a song recommendation. Or a book, like a book's page or
something or some type of thing. But, there's nothing right now. And that is not because they don't
want to say anything, that is really because of the circumstances
they are under right now. And it makes me deeply upset. And I really don't want to end
this episode on a very upset note. But, yet
here we are. Kate: Here we are! Happy birthday, Yoongi! Jhertau: Happy birthday, Yoongi! We talked about politics
in your birthday episode. Just for you! Just for you! But yeah, any final thoughts, Kate? Kate: Oh, yeah. I'll circle back around to the top of
this episode and talk about, you know, I, I am deeply appreciative of the things
that Yoongi has chosen to share with us. and chosen to, give to us in terms of his
thoughts and his art and his everything. And I, yeah, I don't have a lot of w
ords
actually because I'm just very deeply appreciative of him as an individual
and then what he brings to BTS and then BTS as a whole is just, it's a lot. But Yeah. Jhertau: Much love. I also have a very deep
appreciation for Yoongi. He is, again, he's a little sugar bug. He's so full of love. He's so ready to give love to the world. He's also a political radical. And we love that about him. Kate: And we love the duality. Yes. Jhertau: We do. I deeply appreciate him
and everything he's done. An
d also just his music is so political,
him as an individual is so political, and every single one of the members
is, it people are arguing, okay, I have to talk about this, I'm sorry, people
on the TL are arguing, there's some Twitter, TikTok screenshot of people
saying Jin and Suga are conservative, and I was, like, that is actually wrong, Kate: conservative Politically? Politically? Is that what they mean? Cause Jhertau: Maybe. I think that's what they meant. Cause, did they talk about clothe
s wise? Yeah, they cover up. Kate: We have that is true. It's one of, if we're talking
about clothes, it is one of my appreciations for Yoongi is his concern
over my Victorian sensibilities. Okay. That's an important factor in him. I know he's my safe space. Okay. So there's that. But Yeah. Other than that, conservative
is not the word I would use. Jhertau: No. Both of them. I know a lot, we're talking about
Yoongi here, a lot of people will highlight that, but Jin as well. Kate: Yeah, no. Very
poignant. Jhertau: He's said a lot of
very political things before. Kate: And he doesn't pull punches. Jhertau: He's openly talked
about album manipulation in a public award speech before. Kate: Yeah, no, he, yeah,
no I'm not seeing it. I don't see it. Jhertau: Yeah. Anyway, I just don't like when
people try to label the members inappropriately or try to twist
who they actually are as people. Don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. Anyway, our little meow meow
tangerine loving boy, we do lo
ve. And I'm trying to end this
episode on a happy note. Think of happier things. Yoongi, he's so cute. Every cat picture account on Twitter
is terrorized by my ARMYs of the quote retweets going this reminds me of Yoongi. Yeah, okay, good note to end on. Let's stop there. Before we do anything else. But yeah I truly love
and appreciate that man. I hope he is always safe. He is always happy. And everyone, please remember to take care
of yourself, take care of yourself, your family, everyone around
you that you love,
and keep picking up what I'm putting down. Thank you guys, I'm sorry the audio quality
for me in this section is bad. My mic was not connected because we
really jumped into the conversation and we're really into it. Sorry. What's up guys? Welcome back. We didn't actually end the episode. So I know Kate and I really
talked around it during this episode, but this is future us. Kate: When did we record that? Jhertau: January 3rd, 2024. Yeah. We're now we talked around it. We kep
t going. We kept going around it. But now we're just going to say it. Free Palestine, anyway. Happy birthday, Yoongi. Listening back to it, we said
everything that needed to be said. We did. Kate: And I feel like I've basically
just been repeating myself ever since. It's almost Jhertau: it's almost maybe,
we're a little right. Just a little. Yeah. It's so funny, because there's like
this one point in the podcast episode where I was like, people around me
might not be able to say things, people
around me in my immediate vicinity
and then you're like right there Kate: this is true but then i
decided to throw caution to the wind Jhertau: and now your name is on the
whatever the thing the signing the thing Kate: Petition for academic freedom
yeah because the university is trying to curtail our right free speech Jhertau: And then i helped pass
divestment, BDS divestment thing for our student government at my school. If you guys didn't know,
every UC campus, University of California this ne
eds context. Back it up. Back it up, Jhertau. Back it up. Okay, University of California system
is comprised of ten universities that are all called UC and then
the city, wherever they're in. I go to UC Santa Cruz, which is. Part of the university of California
system, but then there's universities like UCLA, UC San Diego, UC
Davis, et cetera, et cetera. Okay. UC Davis would be first UC university
to pass a BDS divestment statement. Not just a statement. It's like an actual like constitutional,
like bylaw and their actual like student government constitution. So it's like a permanent thing where the
funds from the student government will never, ever be invested Into anything that
contributes to the genocide in Palestine. And then I followed the BDS boycott list. And BDS stands for boycott,
divestment and sanctions. And it's a nonviolent
Palestinian led movement. They do boycotts, they do divestments
and they, a lot of information. You can actually go to BDS movement
dot net to read mor
e about it. And. UC Davis was the first school to do that. And now all the UC campuses
are planning to do that. Currently, at the moment, it's March 7th. At this moment, there's five UC
campuses that have divested uC Davis, UC Riverside, UC Santa Cruz, UC San Diego. And there's one more. I'm sorry. Oh, UCLA. UCLA. Five so far that I've divested and all
the other student governments at the other Universities also have plans to divest. So that's what I've been working on Kate. Kate: What have I be
en working? Jhertau: Being a Twitter warrior. Kate: Yeah. I have been popping off on Twitter
a bit, like more than I planned on. I've been having, , I've been having
moments of rage where I just was like, no, I can't be quiet anymore. And I have to write a thread. Jhertau: Good to do that. It's almost like social media
is an avenue to do activism on. Kate: This is true, and it's
interesting because it's a place that I've been doing activism on since 2000, early 2000s. But yeah, I know it's inter
esting because,
and I think it's especially interesting given this episode that we're updating on
there's just been a lot of, arguments on Twitter right now that are circling around
The presence of politics in our space and the presence of capitalism, our space. And there seem to be widely different
views of what's appropriate in our space and what belongs here and what we're
allowed to talk about and what, like what actions we're allowed to take. And it feels. a little bit, I think the reason
t
hat I've been getting extra ragey about some of these arguments is
that it feels really disingenuous. It feels really performative because
especially things like this last week, just as an example, there's just, we went
from people arguing against the boycott to those same people making comments And
platforming ideas around how everyone should be buying and if they aren't buying
things then they aren't really army. And like it, I saw it coming. It was the logical thing that was
going to happen w
hen you have this pitchfork mob mentality going on. But it's just like. We've never been like that as a community,
at least not as long as I've been here. And not as long as other
people have told me. And I just I get upset when we're to
the point where it's like, all we're here is to feed the capitalist beast. Like what? That is not the army that I know. That's not the army that
I want to participate in. And so anyway, that's
what I've been doing. , holding it together, barely, apparently. Jher
tau: I feel like , this loops back to
our conversation about what is an army? Because very much, I feel like buying
is not inherent to being an army. I feel like it's like an action
people do that is army adjacent. That's the thing like there are some ARMYs
who just physically cannot buy things because the country they live in You know
streaming sites don't exist everywhere, Kate: right? Jhertau: It's almost not every
country in the world has access to a k pop store just in their city, Kate: rig
ht? Jhertau: it's really baffling to see how
Many people are so subscribed to this idea of just like You have to like, buy it the
right, or do it the consume the right way. When in itself, I feel like when
we engage in BTS's art, that's not consumption, that is engaging in art. Kate: These things are not, the same. I think what I see happening is just
layers and layers of privilege from folks who have not taken 10 seconds to stop
and think about what they're typing. They're just reacting at this
point
because this whole, the boycott especially, but a lot of the rhetoric
on the, in the community has really turned on this very reactionary,
we've now picked sides, it's become a whole internal war, essentially. And there's a lot of layers to the
privilege around being able to buy. Like you're saying not only is it, are
there places where you just literally can't buy, you can't stream, but then
even within places where you could do those things, maybe you're a student
who can't afford it, o
r maybe you're just, economically disadvantaged,
or maybe you're rural and don't have, stable internet all the time, or maybe
you don't, there's like layers and layers to what all this is, but it. We shouldn't be discounting people because
they don't have access to those things. They still want to participate in the art. They're still participating in the
community, clearly, because they're here. And then and that does not even touch
on the ableism of access at all. So I'm not, that's a whole n
other
episode, but like I, so yeah, for me, it's just, I get really upset,
especially when we're talking about BTS. We're talking about and here,
this is the Yoongi special, right? Like we're literally talking about
the people who would be totally fine with people getting access in non
normative ways to their music, as long as people are able to, engage
with and appreciate their art. Jhertau: Yeah. The entire conversation the creation,
the way that pro Palestinian, anti Palestinian sentiments ha
ve just formed
on army Twitter and people treat it like we're just K pop fandoms warring against
each other or something is so gross because once again, I'ma keep saying it. Palestinian people can't even comprehend
something like this right now. They're going through a literal genocide. Literally being actively killed by Israel. It's so disgusting how people do
not center Palestinians and take this whole conversation and make
it about BTS or about themselves. Like people are always
like what wou
ld BTS think? What would BTS think? I don't care what they think. Kate: Oh my gosh, this. Yes. Can I just echo that? Yes. Cause Oh, are BTS going
to make a statement? Oh, I'll be, I'm like, who cares? Yes. Who cares what they think or say? They do the right thing? Jhertau: Exactly. And sometimes people are like
what if they were Zionists? BTS were Zionists? What if, and I'm just
like, hypothetically, I don't think they would be. Let's just say that. But if they were, I would
just quit being a fa
n. It's still the same thing. It's still the same thing. My morals are just like,
it's the same place. So it is just, That we have gotten
to the point where people are no longer Like people are not treating
this as like a humanitarian issue. People are treating this as like
a fandom issue Which is the whole problem because like it's like we
already talked about this like outside of bts outside of army We're doing
our own thing through palestine. We're boycotting. We're divesting in our own ways.
We're doing things Okay, actually
kate's not giving herself enough credit by the way guys. Kate, out of all of the engineering
department, by the way, Kate's part of the engineering department,
if you guys didn't know that and kate is one of the only engineering
professors to sign on that academic freedom petition, and I just
think we need to recognize that, because a lot of engineering gets
their money from things that are being boycotted and divested from. Because they make the military weapo
ns. They do. And Kate doing that is directly
going against the larger body that she is a part of. So please recognize that and
understand that like what she do, what she's doing right now is like
exactly what she should be doing. Kate and I engage with Palestine
outside of just being an army? And I think that's one of the main
problems on army Twitter right now. It's just so many people do
not have conversations about Palestine outside of army spaces. And because of that, they think
of it only a
s a fandom issue. But it's not Kate: it's really not Jhertau: like I talked about palestine
Recently with people i'm very close to on my twitter who are buyers or funders who
care about bts as well And they're like I don't think boycotting will do anything
or Someone said this to me and The way this I can tell sometimes people don't
respect my opinion and don't respect me as a person and don't respect my intelligence
as a person either because the way this person was like I went to a mosque and
I volunteered there and I spoke with the people there and they said how's not
streaming going to help us right and they tried to use that as like a gotcha I was
like see this Muslim person in a mosque said this and they try to use that as a
gotcha end And this is, by the way, this person is a very privileged individual,
so the way that they use someone else's identity in order to justify their own
comfort and their own lack of action was telling to me as who they are
on the inside, let's just sa
y that. And I just had to very calmly explain
to them about how the boycott on HYBE, the boycott on streaming,
That is all part of divestment. It was initially suggested and
enacted more through the strikes called on by the journalist
Bisan, the Palestinian journalist. And ever since then, people
have continued doing it because it's a humanitarian thing. It's not about BTS. It's not about HYBE, really. It's about taking away Our capital that
one of the things that just citizens of the world One
of the only way our way only
ways of protest that we're able to control now Like taking away our capital is so
powerful and the way people don't see that and the way this person tried to say that
and use someone else's identity to justify their own inaction to me was disgusting
and honestly shocking from them knowing who they are and we cannot think that way. There's what? There's so many times where people try
to be like this Palestinian person says that we shouldn't boycott or whatever. And I'
m like, once again,
there's this whole issue. This happens every single time
there is like a movement or issue. If you actually study racial justice
and study like different social movements, there's always people
who point to oh, this person doesn't believe in it who is from that group. So that's, we should not do it. That's not how this works. That's not. A movement is much larger than any
one person, and any one person, they contribute their voice to
a movement, and an opinion to a movement,
even the contrarian opinion. But that itself does not discredit
or discount the movement at large. Kate: And I've heard this echoed
on Twitter quite a bit recently, but, yes, when you have a whole
group of people, you're gonna have a diversity of opinions, and that's
important and valuable to hear those different opinions, and to be able to. Assimilate those into a coherent
response to things to try to understand other sides of an argument. But what I've been seeing a lot of,
especially with thi
ngs like the dismissal of the boycott, especially has been a
lot of people just pushing back to argue. and just creating obstacles and a lot
of misinformation and disinformation and just a lot of fan war y stuff. We talked about how this, like, why
are we treating this like a fan war? A lot of people are implementing
the same techniques against each other, which is, as a researcher, I
find it fascinating, but as a human being, I find it quite horrifying. But this People are arguing to the
point
where they're being obstructive. And a lot of folks will be like,
Oh I don't believe in the boycott. I'm not going to do it, but
I guess I don't really care about what other people do. It's great. Then stop talking and just let
them get on with their business. Don't get in their way. We could all be like, moving in a
much more coherent way with a lot less toxicity and drama if we just got
out of each other's way and each were doing our bit towards the greater good. But that's not what's happenin
g here. It's a very active, toxic place where
people are like, people that I have been moots with for years are like, coming
after me and saying really horrible things to me and I'm just like, over what? Like for what? What? And this is all just because I have
decided to push forward this movement, especially given the horrific humanitarian
crisis that's being caused, not without saying that the country that I am
paying taxes to right now, and I'm a citizen of is he has a huge hand in it. And s
o I feel it is my duty
to make sure that I am as non compliant in this as possible. And so here we are. Jhertau: I agree with what Kate's
been talking about very much. Like, when you said obstructive, that
connected with me, because that's exactly what we've been seeing. Because, I'm gonna say it, these
people that I talk to about boycotting, they are all like, oh, I'm definitely
not a Zionist, anti genocide, right? But, they are actively being
obstructive to the movement. And in order to be an
ti genocide,
you must be in support of Palestinians and their own liberation. And when you are actively
obstructing that and actively making barriers for Palestinians and
their fight for their liberation. You could not say you were anti
genocide or pro liberation for that fact because I see these same people. They're out here They're retweeting
all of the BTS release stuff, all the stuff for Hope on the Street, all
the stuff for Friends, like the new V song, and They're collecting money
to fund
those types of things They're not retweeting anything about Gaza. They're not retweeting
anything about donations. They're not donating them. And they can say, they can claim,
oh, I'm only donating privately. I'm only donating on my own. I'm not going to share it
because that's performance. Here's the thing. Sharing donations is not, in
fact, inherently performance. It's to encourage other people to donate. What I do when I share my
donations, I'm always like, hey, I donated this amount of money
. Can anyone match my donation? And then I get people
to match my donations. That's double the amount of
money that the donation drive would have gotten originally. And it got double the amount of money
because I asked people to match me. Because inherently, we
are a community of people. It's almost like we should use our
community of people to do good. And when you don't engage with that,
you're actively harming the community. And being obstructionist to
palestinian and pro palestinian army. So
like maybe you could share A
donation link on your 20 000 plus followed account Maybe that would get
some people to be encouraged to donate but you choose not to I'm, really
heavily subtweeting someone right now. I know I am because this person
in particular that made me Very upset that they chose to act
that type of way towards me. Sorry if the audio quality
sucks on this episode. My microphone was not plugged in correctly
because we just jumped right into this. But, that's how we're
feeling a
t the moment. That's our update since we
last recorded this episode. Any final thoughts, Kate? Kate: I am trying to balance. Doing this work and trying to find a
way to not burn out because this has been some of the hardest times I have
spent in an internet community ever. And the amount of heartache
this has caused is just, I can't even begin to process. There's a lot going on and I'm going
to keep processing it, but also happy birthday Yoongi because you
are my shining light in this moment. An
d I love you. Yes. Jhertau: And as we celebrate
activist Yoongi's birthday, he's an activist, by the way, guys. Yes. He for sure is. Kate: 100%. Jhertau: As we do that, I would like
to share some wisdom from activist Mariah Parker, who I got to hear speak
at UC Santa Cruz's Practical Activism Conference this past weekend, actually. She very prominently talked about
how the we in activism is always more important than the I, than the the idea
of the heroic individual activists like your Martin Lu
ther Kings and like that. And I think as we move forward,
that is what we must focus on. We must give up the idea of the
individual activists, like Kate and I, both of us, individually part
of much larger movements within our spaces to enact change for Palestine. And I want you guys to take that wisdom. Also, take more wisdom from Mariah Parker. She also talked about how a lot
of times people will say rest is revolution, or rest is resistance,
and that's true, but rest is also a necessity when
it comes to activism. If you don't rest, you will
not be able to continue your activism, continue your fight. So you must rest and with that knowledge,
please take it snaps for Mariah Parker snaps little claps mini claps I really
was really great getting a cure from her. She was really inspiring And I
think Yoongi would love her too. I'm gonna say that i'm gonna say
that for real But yeah, thank you all for listening so much. Take care please remember to
continue advocating for a free Palestine
and Yeah, that's it. Bye. Bye. Bye OUTRO
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