Senator Ron Wyden is asking the Justice Department to investigate how foreign countries could be spying on your phone data through your push notifications. Also, health insurance companies are working alongside drug companies to make sure that you can’t get a good deal on your prescription drugs. Mike Papantonio & Farron Cousins discuss more.
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*This transcript was generated by a third-party transcription software company, so please excuse any typos.
Senator Ron Wyden is asking the Justice Department to investigate how foreign countries could be spying on your phone data through your push notifications. Wyden's office has spent years investigating this issue, and now they wanna take it to the DOJ and plead with the DOJ, please take action. I've been talking to you about it for years. Talk about how this works.
This is a really kind of complicated, yet, if you're a foreign government, it's actually a bit of a brilliant scheme here.
Yeah. It is.
Because we're talking about in every country, essentially the public airwaves. So when your phone sends you a notification, hey, your game is ready for you to play. A reward is ready. Your map says you gotta take a turn. Those are push notifications that come through your phone. But by doing that, they're of course, using this public space, these public airwaves, whatever. So foreign governments are allowed to say, oh.
We want access to that.
Well, you know, this is coming across our towers. This is coming across our signals. We as the government have every right to see what's happening. And Ron Wyden's office said in a report last week, they said, listen, they're using this to get your messages because your messages come across through a push notification. They're getting emails, they're getting your location data. They're getting everything you do, because they can access these notifications.
And Apple and Google, they have the information, but they're unwilling to share it because they know where that goes. This is just the very tip of the iceberg. They can't share this information. That's why they're refusing to do it. That's why Wyden is trying to demand, tell us who has been affected by this. You have the information. We wanna know who the people are. Right.
Yeah. And doesn't this remind you a lot of, because we were doing segments back then, back during the FISA years where you had the AT&T and you had these other cell carriers say, oh yeah, we've given up data on American citizens, but we can't tell you who, because that's just a breach of confidence. But it's the same thing today. It's just different people doing different things for different countries.
The tech industry has just become so arrogant.
They really have.
They've just become so arrogant. That's why I'm so excited about the lawsuits we're bringing out, bringing against them, social media lawsuits. The stuff we're finding already is appalling and what the DOJ won't do, and what the government won't do, we will do, we'll do in a courtroom, and we will ask the questions and take discovery. I just don't understand why the Department, why Wyden has for years told the Department of Justice, this is serious, man. Pay attention. They won't do it.
Well, Wyden has been great on the whole range of issues with big tech. He is one of the few that's always been solid. He was solid on the surveillance breaches and breach of trust on all that. And he is still just the loudest voice, usually one of the only voices sounding the alarm.
Well, there's one more I read that's on this bill. I forgot who it was, but another Democrat. And of course, there's no Republicans coming up and saying, yeah, we oughta do something about this.
Health insurance companies are working alongside drug companies to make sure that you can't get a good deal on your prescription drugs. The process is complicated and it's very shady. The end result is that you pay through the roof for the cost of pharmaceuticals. Now, here's what people don't, most people watching this would've never even heard of a PBM. Okay. We're handling the insulin case. It's where PBMs are setting drug prices, and they're doing it through price gouging. It's antitrust.
Senator Ron Wyden is asking the Justice Department
to investigate how foreign countries could be spying on your phone data through your
push notifications. Wyden's office has spent years investigating
this issue, and now they wanna take it to the DOJ and plead with the DOJ, please take
action. I've been talking to you about it for years. Talk about how this works. This is a really kind of complicated, yet,
if you're a foreign government, it's actually a bit of a brilliant scheme here. Yeah. It i
s. Because we're talking about in every country,
essentially the public airwaves. So when your phone sends you a notification,
hey, your game is ready for you to play. A reward is ready. Your map says you gotta take a turn. Those are push notifications that come through
your phone. But by doing that, they're of course, using
this public space, these public airwaves, whatever. So foreign governments are allowed to say,
oh. We want access to that. Well, you know, this is coming across our
towers.
This is coming across our signals. We as the government have every right to see
what's happening. And Ron Wyden's office said in a report last
week, they said, listen, they're using this to get your messages because your messages
come across through a push notification. They're getting emails, they're getting your
location data. They're getting everything you do, because
they can access these notifications. And Apple and Google, they have the information,
but they're unwilling to share it becaus
e they know where that goes. This is just the very tip of the iceberg. They can't share this information. That's why they're refusing to do it. That's why Wyden is trying to demand, tell
us who has been affected by this. You have the information. We wanna know who the people are. Right. Yeah. And doesn't this remind you a lot of, because
we were doing segments back then, back during the FISA years where you had the AT&T and
you had these other cell carriers say, oh yeah, we've given up data on A
merican citizens,
but we can't tell you who, because that's just a breach of confidence. But it's the same thing today. It's just different people doing different
things for different countries. The tech industry has just become so arrogant. They really have. They've just become so arrogant. That's why I'm so excited about the lawsuits
we're bringing out, bringing against them, social media lawsuits. The stuff we're finding already is appalling
and what the DOJ won't do, and what the government
won't do, we will do, we'll do in a courtroom,
and we will ask the questions and take discovery. I just don't understand why the Department,
why Wyden has for years told the Department of Justice, this is serious, man. Pay attention. They won't do it. Well, Wyden has been great on the whole range
of issues with big tech. He is one of the few that's always been solid. He was solid on the surveillance breaches
and breach of trust on all that. And he is still just the loudest voice, usually
one of
the only voices sounding the alarm. Well, there's one more I read that's on this
bill. I forgot who it was, but another Democrat. And of course, there's no Republicans coming
up and saying, yeah, we oughta do something about this. Health insurance companies are working alongside
drug companies to make sure that you can't get a good deal on your prescription drugs. The process is complicated and it's very shady. The end result is that you pay through the
roof for the cost of pharmaceuticals. Now,
here's what people don't, most people
watching this would've never even heard of a PBM. Okay. We're handling the insulin case. It's where PBMs are setting drug prices, and
they're doing it through price gouging. It's antitrust. As a matter of fact, I've got a book coming
out following December, about this very issue. It's in the series. But it's focusing on, it's fiction, but it's
focused on the heart of the problem. PBMs came up in the sixties, and they were
supposed to be there to protect con
sumers to make sure that pharmaceutical company doesn't
overcharge. Now that PBM is taking kickbacks. So they want the price of the pharmaceutical
to be as high as possible. They have three different avenues of kickbacks. One is just when they set the price. They put 'em on a list. Right. If you have your pharmaceutical on the list,
you can sell it. These people can keep you off the list. And so it's, I mean, it's a extortion. We'll put your expensive product on the list,
but we want a kickback.
They're literally taking, they call 'em rebates,
but they're kickbacks. Rebates. So yeah. These are pharmacy benefit managers. The PBMs. And what a lot of people don't know, and the
Lever did a beautiful job of explaining this. Oh, by the way, let me, if people, people
always say, I can't find the news, go to the Lever. Yeah. It's wonderful. This is an extraordinary source of news. I'm sorry to interrupt you. Go ahead. No. It needed to be said. So you have these PBMs that are now increasingly
a
ctually being owned by the insurance companies. Now, they used to be kind of this independent
group. The insurance companies are here, your PBMs,
and then your drug companies. Right. Check and balance. Right. The PBMs were kind of the intermediary saying,
okay, insurance, you have to cover this. Drug companies, you gotta cover it at this
price. Everybody's happy. But the insurance companies said, well, what
if we just owned the PBMs? Right. Let's just cut out the middleman. We create our own sys
tem here. So as you said, they now own the PBMs, and
the PBMs are going to the drug companies and saying, hey, we're gonna have to drop your
drug. But, if you come off the price a little bit
of what we'll cover, and you give us the difference. Yeah. That the PBM said. Right. It's extortion. It's nothing less than, they call it rebates. They, oh, this is only a rebate. No, it's a kickback. You say to the pharmaceutical company, you're
not gonna be on the formulary list. We're not even gonna recom
mend that your drug
be able to be sold in these various pharmacies like CVS or whoever. And the people making those decisions also
own the pharmacies. Right? Yeah. So we're saying we want the most expensive
drug. If you got a generic or you have a hundred
times the cost of generic, we want that expensive one on the formulary list because the PBM
gets a kickback and the pharmacy makes more money by selling the more expensive drug. Right? Yeah. So it's, just to give kind of a little bit
of an exam
ple here. Say you've got a drug that big pharma would
charge you $500 for if you didn't have insurance. Well, if you don't have insurance, you're
not gonna be able to afford that medication. So the insurance company says, listen, we
will cover it, and the cost of the consumer will be a hundred dollars. So you're coming off $400. In exchange, we're gonna get the rebate of
$50 a prescription, that comes directly to me at the PBM. So you're actually paying, or 150 instead
of the five, but we get th
e difference there. Yes. Yes. So that's how this scheme works. And as you said too, another part of it is
the generics because they'll go to the drug companies and say, listen, we got a $2 generic
over here. We could put that on the list and it's gonna
be free. PBM says, no, we're not putting you on the
formulary. We want the one that cost a hundred times
that because we make more money. And there are no regulations. The FTC has done nothing about this since
the 1960s. And it's evolved. And it i
s a mob control. I mean, it is literally. Matter of fact, in the book I'm writing, I
actually have the Irish mob moving into this business because it's a way for them to make
big money and never go to jail for committing the most awful crimes. And so, but the point, until somebody takes
a look at it, this is gonna continue. And doctors will tell you, this is part of
the problem. I can't even give my patient a medicine that
works for 'em because in the middle of them taking that medicine, I'll ge
t a notice saying,
you can't give 'em that medicine anymore. He has to buy the more expensive one. That doesn't work, by the way.
Comments
Push notifications need to be encrypted end to end.
I’m an Oregonian and appreciate Wyden! Good job! 👏
Im from Oregon. Our Senators do good work.
We love love our Ron Wyden in Oregon! He has served us and the country proudly. This is exceptionally important.
Spies on phone access to data is that what happened yesterday ? At&t, Verizon, T- Mobile & Boost mobile all had data outages yesterday for hours
I turned ALL my notifications as soon as I get each new handset... They are not necessary or required. I read my messages etc when I open the app and look. The world is full of Pavlov's Dogs. If their phone does not chirp, beep, bleep, whistle, or any other notification sound within 30 seconds = Panic Attack mode! LOL After a minute, the Pavlov's Dogs will actually take their phone out of pocket or bag or on table (already)... and Look to see if have Signal and IF have Battery charge. Cracks me up in laughter as ... there is another one... Programmed to be a slave to a few cm's of metal/plastic.
I don't have all those push notifications on my phone what I don't need them because I don't use them. It's amazing this world just doesn't seem to have any Ray of Hope at all.
I wonder if the tech privacy guru Rob Braxman has covered this phenomenon. 🤔
Interesting commentary on price gouging by PBMs for prescription drugs. I expect The research and development of many of these drugs is subsidized by taxpayers money. Seems like the FDA could do something about it.
Excellent work!
What insurance companies own PBM’s?
All kickbacks/rebates need to be illegal. The conflict of interest is appalling.
Like here we go insurance companies back into our health care this is a bare and switch thing kickbacks sure made illegal and the money should go right into the hospital gouging everyone is total wrong fix this reg 80 yrs not fix who paying who f this I'm dealing with Insurance companies telling me no for my meds in need of a lung transplant f
I still hope to see Pap and Farron talk about specialty drug carve out programs that are gaining popularity in the PBM space. I will also point out, as someone that works for a health insurance plan in a role where I see the contracts between employer groups and the insurance companies that employer group drive a lot of this stuff. Every RFP I see rebates are a top question because if the employer group is self-funded we often pass 100% of the rebates to the employer and we see very little rebate money at that point. Also, the insurance company I work for is a non-profit and as such they design their formulary to be lowest net cost as opposed to what nets the best rebates. We take stuff off our formularies periodically that have high rebates because there are other drugs that offer a lower net cost to the health plan, the employer group, and the member. Good coverage though, and I do agree with Pap that rebates are essentially kick backs and the big national companies really do design their formularies around them.
Senator Wyden making Oregon look good again.
The government must own everything. We need to take away the rights of the individual citizens for the greater good
Give the pharmacies a break. Drug development is hard work